Nerdist Writer’s Podcast

Bryan and I were guests on the Nerdist Writer’s Panel podcast with Ben Blacker. We talked about the creation of the show, the move to digital, and even about the Movie That Shall Not Be Named. Ben does a great job with the podcast and has had some big names on in the past, like Matthew Weiner, Damon Lindelof, and Vince Gilligan, so I was honored to be one of his guests! It’s a great podcast, with in depth interviews with a lot of showrunners from some of the best series out there. A great resource for aspiring writers and people who just like learning more about how a TV show is made.

Find the interview here on itunes. Also on the Nerdist website.


33 thoughts on “Nerdist Writer’s Podcast

  1. Thanks Mike, I always wanted to pursue writing as I enjoy it very much, but I don’t have a background in writing or any formal schooling in terms of writing. Do you view these circumstances as a barrier to entry?

  2. I am sure there are many fans, but I just want to tell you how deeply touched I am by the avatar universe. It has been special to me since I can remember, and it is something I shared with my sister who recently passed. I find it difficult to watch lately, but necessary, and I find that in some ways it helps me heal, or helps me remember her. She was a writer and an artist, and I have seen in a lot of her writings and imagination many of the creations you and your team have inspired. The last episode I got to watch side-by-side with her was The Beginnings Part 1 and 2. We loved it. And this most recent season, she would have been so touched.

    Thank you for creating something so beautiful.

  3. The Book 3 Finale was heart-wrenching and unpredictable in the best possible ways. Thank you for your hard work through what appeared to be many obstacles this season; it paid off!

  4. Michael i want to take this opportunity to thank you for your teams work this season and all previous seasons. I want to say i enjoyed book 1, book 2 and 3 so much. I don’t know why some fans didn’t like book 2. That aside i sometines feel disheartened that book 3 did not get impressive ratings and i thought it was going to be cancelled. Well i know good work when i see it and the entire LOK is great work. There is something that Raava said to Avatar Wan ” We will be together in all of your lifetimes and we will NEVER GIVE UP”. Despite the naysayers please do no give up on producing shows like LOK more importantly do not give up on Korra. I like both Aang and Korra but i think i can connect with Korra more.
    I remember “requesting” somewhere that Jinora should get her airbending tattoos when book 2 ended. I am among the most happiest fans when i saw master Jinora. I have a feeling she will look like Avatar Yangchen when she styles her hair like the airbender ladies 😉 . I am looking forward to book 4. Btw when will you annnounce book 4 title ?

  5. I fell in love with the Avatar franchise from the moment I first watched The Last Airbender. I truly hope that we will be able to meet the earth and fire Avatars following Korra’s era. I look forward to book 4. Thank you got creating possibly the greatest animated series.

  6. Hello,
    Thank you, for producing an epic series. I wish I could say it in person, but I’m from Canada, and I couldn’t make it to Comic-Con. ATLA and Korra are more than just a series. My dad is a photographer and auto-journalist, he travels a lot and works in the Middle East. When I was a kid and he would leave for work, we would always discuss ATLA over seas, and on some days we would be watching it at the same time. It was something that made us feel like we weren’t too far away from each other. My dad loves The Legend of Korra, and he would always give me some background history on cars that resembled the Sato Mobiles and their mechanics. He very much admired the animation. When I saw the finale of book 3, the love between Korra and her father made me cry. We lost communication with my father for a week now, he was on a work trip in the Middle East, and sadly the situation there is not good. My heart ached when I saw Korra and her father depart, it reminded me of the times when I had to say good bye to my dad, how much I love him, miss him and hope he is safe. I understand that you must receive many many letters, mails and comments, but I would like to once again thank you and Mr. Konietzko for executing a wonderful series. I hope I get a chance to see book 3 finale with my father, I know he would love the episode.
    Thanks for your time,
    ~ Aisha

  7. Mike Dimartino,
    Hey my name is Sybashtian and first I would like to apologize for how the Last Airbender movie went. That being said I would really like to talk to you about an interesting film adaptation of Avatar that would please fans seeing as how a fellow fan had the idea. If you are interested please contact me through email as I would love to tell you about it and see how the Avatar universe could be expanded.
    Thank you,

  8. here’s the deal,

    I am sooooo excited for book four, but my point in leaving a comment is to tell you that the avatar legend has to continue. I’ve never been more indulged in a series in my 23 years, a cartoon series at that. I would love it if you’d continue with Korra’s story but if not, any kind of avatar series will do. Here’s what I’ve always wanted to know… WHERE WAS ZUKO’S MOTHER?! One of the many mysteries of the world i suppose. Pleaseeee keep the avatars coming!!!!


    A really cool Avatar loving chicks

  9. Oh and GREAT job making Jinora look like young avatar Ang. that was the cherry on top of a great season!


    A really cool Avatar loving chick

  10. Well K, its an incredible tale… GRAN GRAN! you look old. How old are you? And why is it so cold in the South Pole? Can we make a campfire, and all huddle around it, and tell scary stories, and make snowmen? And then can you make the snowmen move with waterbending and chase us? Wouldn’t that be fun? Huh! Wouldn’t it?

    Seriously though, the answer you’re looking for is in the comics. Specifically The Search, But I would recommend starting with The Promise.

  11. Hi Michael, I’ve been following your work since Last Airbender… I just want to say that you have one of the ILLEST works EVER!!! The Avatar Universe has so much story to offer! IT IS COMPLETELY AWESOME IT LEAVES ME IN A HANGOVER EVERY SEASON-END!

    I just hope you get to complete the cycle though, I know it’s gonna be a long shot, but imagine the truck-load of potential stories to tell! XD
    Anyways, I have looked up to you since day one, and I am studying writing myself, so i hope to see more content from you cuz you are just a prime example of extreme creativity!

  12. Hey, I just wanted to say that I loved Avatar universe. It really brought about an interesting concept. I was wondering though, have any of you who work on the franchise ever debated on making a series of Avatar games, that takes place during the previous avatar life times? Like sometime between Wan and Aang, showing the progression of the Avatar’s influence over the world. Or maybe even create a game that is like a mixture of the Elder Scrolls franchise and the Avatar universe, where the player can create their own bender/non-bender/avatar characters and go on a journey based off of that, in an open world styled game? Or a Dragon Age/Mass Effect concept, where the player can create an avatar that can actually choose to use their powers for Good or Evil purposes? I’m really only using names of other games, so that it would be easier to explain the concept.

  13. Hello Mr. DiMartino,

    I just found the treasure trove that is your website and am still going through posts, so if you have already talked about this I apologize in advanced.

    One aspect of character relationships that has always fascinated me has been Names & Titles, both in real life and in stories. The way one person addresses another can have a great impact how that person acts and how there character develops.

    The one character where I see this play the largest part in is Batman from the DCAU. I’ve noticed over the years that while police and even other superheroes address super villains by their villain moniker, Batman will often address them by their birth name, and more than often, it helps him when dealing with them. I think this shows that how we address a person is a pretty accurate reflection of how we treat them and how we think of them. While the police and other superheroes see them as Monsters and treat them that way, he see them as people and treats them as such.

    You even see it many times in how he refers to Joker and how he talks to other super heroes.. Because he doesn’t know his name, he’ll often refer to him as “The Joker”, and he addresses his fellow superheroes by their first name more often than any other hero.

    Sorry, that ended up being longer than I thought. I was just wondering if you had any further insights into this topic as you develop your characters.

  14. Mr. DiMartino,

    I have no idea where it would be appropriate to leave this, but I had to express my thanks somewhere. I’ve been watching Korra since the beginning, obsessively watching every episode. After these last few episodes, I needed to thank you for including Korra’s visions of her worst moments in the storyline. I am a girl Korra’s age, I even look much like her, due to my ethnicity. I also have post traumatic stress disorder. The symptoms are very similar to what Korra struggles with. Seeing a character that is otherwise so strong experience the same issues I have legitimizes my disorder. It reminds me that my disorder doesn’t make me or anyone else weak. I can’t thank your production enough for that.

  15. Hello, Mr. DiMartino. I’m a great fan of Avatar (The Last Airbender and Legend of Korra). I decide see ATLA again! 😀 (Is great, i love it). However, when i watch the Book 3, when displayed the death of Avatar Roku, i doubt arose: Because Roku decided to confront the volcano is all the people of town were evacuated and all houses were destroyed? Had something that is worth dying?
    I’m going to be crazy for this. Thanks for your attention, and congratulations.

  16. Hi Mike I was wandering if you and your partner we’re going to create a new avatar if so I have some ideas not really big but I think it would be cool to see a new element that people can control , like wood or plants or aether or Rays of light and even something like gravity because when harmonic convergence happened things changed so mabye some of the elements changed and people got them like they got air bending in the legend of korra … That would be soooooooo coooooooolllll anyways if you are not creating anymore (I hope you are) avatar series you Should create something else like another cartoon . I just hope you don’t stop . Could you get back to me If you are creating something new or not that would be great

  17. Story does matter. Narrative coherence, logic, and respect for the reader’s intelligence do matter. Not trolling the reader and not trying to be original and smart at the expense of the reader’s trust, matters. Not giving hints and developments during 4 books just to throw that away at the end just for being considered ‘innovative’ and ‘modern’ do matter. Not trolling in interviews do show respect for those that take their time to see what you are creating. Opting to not destroy a story conclusion does matter instead of “that way would be the expected one, we have to surprise and the message we are letting is positive, look at the angle of acceptance of a gay relationship, even if the characters we decided to show gay all of a sudden have not shown any single tiny little bit of this tendency, it doesn’t matter, but the beautiful message we are delivering does”. Bad choice you have made, I’m afraid, and had to tell you that. Some surprises are better not being experienced. They are bad surprises. They left those that were loyal to your narrative with a taste of betrayal, of sadness, of disappointment. Showing the sadness in a character that has grown so much and not giving him the happiness he deserved, just to win critical praise of hipness is really disappointing. I wish this message could be read by both, Mike and Bryan. I know I’m just a negligible point in a probability distribution function, a trace that doesn’t matter for you, but I want you to know that I’m not alone. Today you have really really shocked in a bad way more people than those you have praised, just know that when receiving the congratulations for what you have done, and I know that you are going to receive the applause, but be aware that, despite all the hip, Makorra was and still is the only pair that makes narrative sense in this story of yours. Story does matter. That’s why.

    1. Where do I sign? What a frustration, what a disappointment, and to think that you have a blog on how to tell a story – it rather could be how to tell a story and then to screw it.

      How I see, deep down, your mind working during your creative process:

      “Let’s plan the story (we never do a fan service, this is us, and only us): We use great animation, beautiful imagery, great music, well designed characters, start with a coherent narrative ant then, let the fun begin! By the way, let’s try to be funny when there is no fun at all. Oh, yes, let’s not care about Mako’s treatment as a character. He doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter that he never got an apology or explanation, or anything. He cheated on Korra and Asami at separate times, so screw him, right? He only deserves Wu’s affection, right? Let him underused this whole season because he doesn’t deserve nothing more. And as a plus, we will portrait him as the most selfless hero of them all, because Korra inspires him.. oh yes, we had him promising to always love her – this we will make permanent, he deserves to suffer, ha ha ha, he will keep his promise, the most he gets is a “I don’t know how to thank you,” and then left alone and then, out of nowhere we can use that character whose only purpose is to be the love interest of someone else, Asami, and will troll the fans in the finale, ah ah ah it’s gonna be so funny, to make fun of those people out there, after all the false leads we gave them, ah ah ah and the critics will love it, we will be worshiped for our modernity, for our audacious and creative and innovative take on romance in a cartoon, how smart… As for the frustrated fans, we will explain the plot in the DVD, because our narrative is so good that it only makes sense after we explain it, justify it”

      The only problem, Michael, is that sometimes there is no way to explain the inexplicable

  18. Left this on the comment section next to the last show on, but thought I’d post here. Just wanted to share some ideas.

    Sooo…next up, earthbending avatar, timeframe is more modern day (this avatar was like 20’s/steampunk), Title: “The Last Days of Earth” (interesting question, so its called ‘earth bending’ opposed to an ambiguous ‘dirt bending’, so is the planet name they are on Earth?), and the Earth is out of balance with terrible storms, earthquakes, etc. The avatar tries to save people and avert the disasters by bending the element of the disaster, i.e. tsunami (water), earthquake (earth), volcano (fire/lava), hurricane (air); but realizes that something is happening to the planet, and may be too late to save (nod to modern day industrialization / global warming). Towards end of series, a new bending is discovered, space/time; which allows space travel. Maybe bending of spiritual energy to move space, like a worm hole. Theme of series is true balance of the elements and nature which leads to the discover of the new element (space/time). Also, series takes place more in spiritual world as avatar thinks problem is spiritual problems, but spirits teach avatar that as the avatar they should understand the balance of all elements and their interplay, and not just use their individual attributes. Ohh..and through the bending of space/time, the connection with all avatars is restored as the broken connection of time is mended. The inclusion of space/time would also bridge eastern (elements) and western (dimensions) ideology. Ahhh man, sign me up to be a series writer!!!

    Then the final element avatar series, fire, Title: “Born of Fire”, is based between two planets and is based in the future. The earth avatar helped people discover space and another planet. Now the fire avatar is stepping into the role of an avatar of two worlds (nod to our future endeavor to Mars). First part of series is helping with colonization of planet and individual bickerings, etc. Then as books go on, tensions arise between the two worlds as people on the other planet feel they are no longer apart of the home planet, i.e. a revolutionary war of the worlds, and a new empire arises (not earth, fire, etc.). The avatar must stop this war from occurring, and in the last book of the series, a new book is added; space/time. In the new book the Avatar travels into the future to see the outcome and discovers the war occurs and the avatars have become universe rogues, wandering within space/time. However, the avatar talks with the future avatars and is able to prevent the war from occurring. However, as the avatar is now able to see through space and time, they understand that nothing is permanent and in the grand scheme of millennium, things will balance out. With that enlightenment, the avatar disappears into the void of space/time leaving mankind and the universe to proceed on its own.

    If ya’ll want to surprise fans, then after the above have a new avatar emerge out of the space/time element. Series detail TBD.

    BOOM!!! There’s your next 2/3 series!!!

    Sign me up!

  19. Sorry, I wish I wasn’t back but I had to leave a text written by another fan that reflects with perfection how I feel and what think and couldn’t say better:

    “No, you are right, Mako didn’t deserve Korra or to end up with Korra, no.

    What he DOES deserve, or DID deserve and never received, was some f****** basic acknowledgment of his feelings, some f****** basic closure on his strife with Korra, some f****** basic RESPECT, at the end of a series which went out of its way to show how much he cares, admires, supports and all around loves the f****** woman who changed his life and inspired him to do better, for two and half years of this f****** show’s run, who was willing to sacrifice his life for the safety of a city which swallowed his whole childhood with its cruelty and unfairness, and wasn’t even given the courtesy of a decent apologize for having being ignored for three years from the person he shared a romantic past, a developed friendship, a companionship with, the same person whose trials and tribulations and triumph he witnessed and directly aided to accomplish. So sorry, not sorry if I’m feeling a little (a lot) pissed off and indignant if all I got for this kind, caring, patient beyond belief, perfectly worthy character is a f****** ridiculous ‘I don’t know what to say, but thank you’.

    This series completely and utterly invalidated Mako’s overall importance in Korra’s life, they eclipsed his character to the point that any lingering questions and trace of sentiment has been cut off and muted with no apparent reason, no real progression, and it’s such an awful display of bad writing that I don’t know how could you claim all we complain about is because of mindless shipping: it’s the very last of the problems in our books, I can assure you.”

  20. Why story does matter?

    Because its narrative may be turned upside down whenever we want, just because we can, to hell with any consistency narrative wise. We are bad ass writers, subversive writers, clever artists that will revolutionize this media and will receive all acclamation our talent deserve in this vanity fair of a world, so clever writers that know how to keep consistency like in this piece of s***, ops, of coherent and unambiguous narrative:

    I’ve been away for so long. i feel so guilty for going off and neglecting my avatar duties. i’m not going to do that again. Republic City is in such a mess, destruction everywhere, Mako almost died but I said thank you to him (that’s more than enough and okay after all he has done, suffered and grown, and after all we have lived together), I’m so selfless and, look, there is a brand new portal over there … surprise everyone! I don’t care I have lost my fierce personality, my inner fire and became a flat, serene, and all-perfect Asami 2.0 version. Ah, by the way, to revolutionize even more and show how modern I am, my creators have decided that I’m bisexual now, you deal with it!
    *goes on vacation*

    Thank you, Bryke, for creating a great story in 52 episodes and being able to completely invalidate it in just 3 minutes. Receive the critics acclamation, you did what you did for it, now get it.

  21. Congratulations for having the courage, or the presumption, to address and question the sexuality of Korra although you did not manage to do it the right way and for the right reasons. It felt forced, it was done at the expense of not giving Mako and her arc with him justice. Mako is one of the less caricature-like characters you have created in this show, one of the most human and realistic, despite the bending fantasy, and you did manage to give him development throughout the series. You did manage to show us he still is in love with Korra, more than as a friend (other wise, why wasting our time showing him talking about her for almost 9 minutes in Remembrances? why hinting he hadn’t moved on, not having any relationship since he and Korra broke up? why showing a break up where both promise eternal love to each other?), Your weak narrative showed that Mako hadn’t moved on, and implied that he may not move on, still, in a sort of way. You gave him, as a prize for raising his little brother after a tragedy in his early childhood, for being just awesome in all senses, the pain of ending up with a job he hated, being a baby sitter, being alone, willing to selflessly sacrifice himself if necessary, of caring for the people that hadn’t been evacuated, instead of getting the hell out of that city You prized him with a thank you from Korra, and despite his patience and understanding of her, you made her not even apologize to him about not having written to him (or Bolin), for not demonstrating she still cares for him as she used to – she promised she would always love him, remember? Mako is a great character, at the end, the real and consistent hero. THIS we owe you, for this you made him justice. And as a prize, solitude and unrequited love. Well done (*insert sarcasm here*) The same can’t be said to Asami, a stereotyped caricature of fatal woman that is also smart and intelligent. The all-perfection flawless character with no purpose most of the time, not a single arc of her own other than being the love interest of someone, underused almost all the time after book 1, always supportive, always flat and uninteresting, even if with plenty of potential for being appealing. Sometimes she was just there, doing nothing, adding nothing – for that you did prize her with the romantic love of Korra, coming out of nowhere. If you were not allowed to do it the way you wanted, for different reasons that I don’t care, then just don’t to it wrong. You would have to be able to handle normal romance, first, before trying this new approach. As for Korra, to disappoint even more, we learn from her that one has to suffer to become compassionate (as if she wasn’t before, in so many occasions – if that wasn’t being selfless (as Mako said) and compassionate, what is?); You have a long way to learn before being competent for approaching with a good narrative this theme. Of course this will get a hip from the press, from the critics, from the media. But be aware that most of those that have really cared for this show are sad, upset, confused, disappointed, pissed off. But for that you don’t care, isn’t it? It is not just you and Bryan and your team that has invested energy and love in this show. You made with the fandom the same you made with Mako. Congratulations.

  22. This site hasnt been updated in a while, I dont know if you still check it out but this is the only way I can simply say thank you. The universe you have created is beyond amazing and I cant explain how much I have been impacted in all seasons.
    The finale of book 4 touched on a topic that caused an unnecessary argument between myself and my best friend, for a long time. I havent talked to her since she told me, and you taught me about respect, compassion and acceptance. I can not thank you enough,
    I have always loved the Avatar world, and always will. I called her up last night and I am happy and proud to call her my best friend.
    Thank you for teaching me about friendship, compassion, acceptance and love through Korra’s journey and bringing my friend back. Thank you for teaching me about how to judge character and not race, sexuality or gender. I am going to make sure my children take the avatar journey just as I have.
    You guys are my heroes 🙂

  23. Mike, I would like to vent a little, get off my chest this pain, this indignation for knowing and feeling betrayed, this taste of sadness for being used and deceived and having devoted so much time watching and sending to you, Bryan et al. my energy and my confidence. I could complain a lot, but I will focus on just one point, which I consider the most important. By committing the narrative of the story you were telling to escape the common place where a woman, protagonist, ends her saga alongside her male love, you guys fell in the worst trap that you ego could arm to you. You tried to be revolutionary and ended up being cliche. you tried to innovate presenting a woman, heroine, a fighter, a master of all elements and martial arts, tried to escape from the typical archetypes and felt in a much worse one by making her a bisexual woman, placing her in a homosexual relationship. Created another character trying to escape the archetype of fatal and fragile woman and completely disconnected from the male world (including skill for engineering), and you delivered the prototype of a woman occupying a typically male positions and may it possible to be inferred that this is because she presents homosexual inclinations. You tried to be smarter than everyone and just compromised the consistency and integrity of the story you two were telling, you became more retrograde than the most conservative of conservatives. I feel for you, covered with a glory of the moment conquered at the sadness and expense of so many fans, some of whom do not care about romance per se, but bind in the narrative quality; And if romance is an integral part of it,they expect it to be well planned, executed and concluded. What a pity.

  24. i have not stopped thinking (or crying) about book 4. amazing finale. i will always remember it. thank you for taking me on yet another elegant journey, first aang, now korra. avatar will always be in my heart.
    thank you for making something so spectacular, i have never felt so emotional.

  25. Mike, I want you to know that I value your and Bryan’s work, my words before are a reflex of my disappointment on having invested so much energy and time of my life in following and reading your story, despite eventual lack of time, I pushed many things of my life back because I felt like it was worth it. I thought I was reading a story and became chocked when realized that you were telling another one. I read it wrong or what. As a narrative perspective between the artist and who is appreciating its art one of this ends made it wrong, or both, you might have tried to communicate something that I didn’t not perceive. If either the transmitter and receiver did not fail, the medium between them interfered to make something wrong. The result, for me is translated into inconsistency, in lack of sense, waste of time, frustration, confusion, disappointment, sadness. Life goes on, I know that a day you will say something, explain something. But let me tell you, if the narrative fails to make sense by itself, if it needs too much filling in blanks, it’s not that good. Overall, please, receive this critic as more constructive than other thing. Sometimes, not just the applause is worth, what I’m saying may not be what you want to hear, but your huge effort in delivering an art piece has been forever, and I mean it, forever, stained by something that has been bigger than the story you were telling and was imposed on us at the price of deconstructing any kind of narrative sense. Next time you and Bryan invest your talent in something as huge as it, think more before throwing away logic, respect for the reader, consistency, coherence, in the name of some symbolic message that comes out of nowhere, that has not been given time as much as the other part you just discarded.

    One thing, only, you made right until the end is related the coherence in Makos profile, the best character in Team Avatar (I’m not talking about the older generation, Tenzin et al. are good), but among the original four, the only that has been giving a more coherent arc UNTIL the last second, Bolin, also, has grown as a character, but it was too much caricature-like. Korra’s arc started good until this last season, after that her change transformed her into something that lost her original and more appealing spark. Asami has always been the most underdeveloped and flat character, without a proper arc, without growing, always perfect, flawless. Too much flawless, even her plot with has father was brought up just for you using Hiroshi as a plot convenience and, okay, I take that her only arc was with her father. Other than that, the consistency of her was when she was her lowest, she has always gone for the safe place in a romantic relationship, first with Mako and later with Korra, she never frees herself from this dependecy. Mako, on the contrary has always been the most human and still is and maybe this is the message you tried to convey, is that being the most human means you are going to end up alone as a reward for being that. The real hero in this story is him.

    It is lame finishing the whole saga the way you did. Sometimes being smart is not being different.
    You are receiving and will receive many deserved applause but know that what you did to thousands maybe millions of people around the world has been bringing in them tears of sadness, instead of joy – you brought the later, also, to another group of people, unfortunately I’m not in this one. But, as December is a month for us to worship love and forgiveness, go in peace. I’ll try to find mine inner peace detaching myself from anything related to you and Legend of Korra, from now on, to me, named Legend of Mako.

  26. I’m reading a book, The sea, the sea, by Iris Murdock, and I found a citation tha may bring light to some points above (pp. x, Introduction)
    “Perhaps in our rush to take in the ideas of Eastern thought, we have misunderstood this central concept; certainly, there have been many who see detachment as a form of smug quietism, practised by those who feel somehow superior to the ordinary run of human affairs. Yet one may be passionate and also practise detachment. It is central to the work of the artist, for example, that the self, and the desire for rewards of various kinds, are set aside, ar least temporarily, in persuit of an elusive excellence. ‘If I do well I am blessed wether any bless me or not’. Marianne Moore also said, ‘and if I do ill I am cursed.’ Her source for this sentiment appears to have been the Bhagavad Gita (18: 23-5):

    When work is done as sacred work, unselfishly, with a peaceful mind, without lust or hate, with no desire for reward, then the work is pure.

    But when work is done with selfish desire, or feeling it is an effort, or thinking it is a sacrifice, then the work is impure.

    And that work which is done with a confused mind, without considering what may follow, or one’s own power, or the harm done to others, or one’s own loss, is work of darkness.

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